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    What's the point of "Script title" parameter?

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    And while it might have been answered here before - pretty please, add that explanation to the documentation of templates that use this paramter (like Template:Cite web). It should be obvious from readng the doc (and it very much isn't now; as in - why use this field if the Chinese etc. scripts display perfectly fine in regular title field?). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:40, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Ctrl + F finds the following (eventually) in the cited template documentation:

    script-title: Original title for languages that do not use a Latin-based script (Arabic, Chinese, Cyrillic, Greek, Hebrew, Japanese, Korean, etc); follows Romanization defined in title (if present). Must be prefixed with one of the supported language codes to help browsers properly display the script:
    ... |title=Tōkyō tawā |script-title=ja:東京タワー |trans-title=Tokyo Tower ...

    I suppose we might adjust this to say that script-title is only needed when italics would otherwise be output (which may be a general adjustment), as CS1 might for the name of a book or website. Izno (talk) 03:05, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    One thing I hate about the |script parameters is that they strip things like quotation marks from article titles. Snowman304|talk 00:32, 4 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've noticed that and I'm pretty sure I'd come to the conclusion it probably shouldn't do that. You should make a new section for it. Izno (talk) 17:40, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    In addition to avoiding italics for Chinese characters etc in book titles, this allows one to also give the romanized title in |title=. Kanguole 07:30, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Template:Cite web#csdoc_script-title. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Izno @Redrose64 I did see that, but I did not realize italics would be a problem - this needs to be clearly explained in the text. Should title field be empty for Chinese and similar languages? This is very much still uncledar to me (and there is even an error prompt when saving the template about title field being empty). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    PS. I noticed this problem when c/e a ref here. In the past I've always seen and included Chinese / Korean titles in the title field, and I can't recall I've ever seen this parameter used until today. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:50, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    A week later and I still don't know when to use this. A lot of my students are adding Chinese and Korean sources, and I am telling them to use the title, not script, field, and nothing in our rules tells me I am giving them bad advice (since the title field does not say not to use non-latin scripts in it). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:29, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    In order to be most helpful to readers not familiar with the script, I suggest that the documentation should recommend that titles in non-Latin scripts should be placed in |script-title=, with a romanization in |title=. Kanguole 08:18, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed; but we also should have a way to dynamically fix it - a pop up or such when saving a template with non-Latin characters in the title parameter. Otherwise next to nobody will be doing this, as it is counter-intuitive not to have a title in the, well, title parameter. Plus we have the "trans-title" parameter, for translating the, well, title, not the "trans-script-title"... Frankly, I don't undestand the technical problem of not being able to handle non-Latin stuff in title field. I've never seen any problem with the non-Latin stuff in that field. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:02, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll second this; I've used plenty of Cyrillic in the title field w/o any issues. Or is the idea non-Latin script in the script field, transliterated title in the title field and translated title in trans-title? If so then that should be made much clearer.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:29, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Sturmvogel 66 "Bah, editors should figure that out by using wiki telepathy. The person who designed that field had a good idea how to use it - why can't everyone else?" :P Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:36, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Something like
     <ref>{{cite book
 | title        = Luach Ha-pe'alim Ha-shalem
 | script-title = he:לוח הפעלים השלם
 | trans-title  = The complete verb table
 | author       = Dr. Shaul Barkali 
 | publisher    = Levine/Millenniu
 }}
</ref>
    Rendering as this[1] and creating metadata for the Hebrew title. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Do that ↑; don't do this:
    {{cite book |title=he:לוח הפעלים השלם |author=Shaul Barkali |publisher=Levine/Millenniu}}
    Shaul Barkali. לוח הפעלים השלם. Levine/Millenniu.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:03, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you mean that title is for rendering the title in latin characters (romanization), and non-latin go in the script? That makes sense, but rendering titles in latin is often hard. It also requires extra steps. When pasting a random Korean ref into Citoid etc. I am pretty sure it ignores script-title, and uses Hangul for title. I see no problem with this (of course, best practice is to provide translation and romanization, but this is not what most editors do in 99% of cases...). Frankly, this is something we should have an AI tool run by a bot handle :P Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 14:55, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    |script-title= was created because non-latin text, especially cjk text, should not be italicized and because right-to-left text (Arabic, Hebrew, Persian, etc) must be isolated from left-to-right text. |script-title= also marks-up the non-latin text so that browsers and screen readers can render and pronounce the text using appropriate fonts and pronunciation.
    If you have issues with citoid, this place is not the correct venue; a discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1 has no power to change citoid. Try Phabricator.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:30, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Trappist the monk I don't have issues with citoid - much. I am trying to figure out when script-title should be used, and get some folks who know the answer to this to update the relevant documentation at Template:Cite web and wherever else this paramater is used. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 15:36, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed; but we also should have a way to dynamically fix it - a pop up or such when saving a template with non-Latin characters in the title parameter (link) and When pasting a random Korean ref into Citoid etc. I am pretty sure it ignores script-title, and uses Hangul for title (link) read like complaints about citoid (and ve) to me. We can't fix those things here.
    I am known to suck at writing documentation – my style is too technical. If you (or anyone) knows how to make the documentation more complete and understandable, the template docs are not protected, so please do. See:
    That abomination that is TemplateData must be edited at each of the 29 cs1|2 templates.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:56, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussions attendant on implementing |script-title=:
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:03, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    References

    1. ^ Dr. Shaul Barkali. Luach Ha-pe'alim Ha-shalem לוח הפעלים השלם [The complete verb table]. Levine/Millenniu.

    Discussion at Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard § Is Monkbot 21 removing url-status=dead desirable?

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     You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Bots/Noticeboard § Is Monkbot 21 removing url-status=dead desirable?. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 19:46, 8 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    PMC limit too low

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    Trace Gas Orbiter has PMC 12506970, which is correct. It looks like there's currently an unreleased article with PMC 12513599, if that helps determine the upper limit of this increment. Snowman304|talk 01:14, 11 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    SSRN value

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    Needs update per SSRN 5515282. DrKay (talk) 17:00, 14 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Cite journal

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    I don’t know if this applies to the other journals but you have to enter [month in words] [year] but in journals it is often written as [year] [month number] which messes up the automatic citation maker. Houcaris (talk) 20:44, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    For example January 1988 and 1988-1. Houcaris (talk) 20:45, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes. "1988-1" or "1988-01" are not valid date formats on the English Wikipedia. See MOS:DATESNO for more information. You may need to edit the automatic output of citation tools. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:00, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    We write dates according to the documentation for {{Cite journal}}. How the publication being cited chooses to write dates doesn't matter. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:02, 20 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    "Others" field not working per "Cite book" documentation

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    Greetings and felicitations. The Template:Cite book documentation currently states:

    others: To record other contributors to the work, including illustrators. For the parameter value, write Illustrated by John Smith.

    However, this is currently generating the "{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: others" error in Lady Annabel Goldsmith#Bibliography for:

    * {{Cite book |author-mask=2 |year=2006 |title=Copper: A Dog's Life |url=https://archive.org/details/copperdogslife0000gold |url-access=registration |others=Illustrated by India Jane Birley |location=London |publisher=Time Warner |isbn=0-316-73204-4}}

    What should the documentation state? Or is there actually a mistake in the template's code? —DocWatson42 (talk) 11:40, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Manintenance messages are not errors.
    |others= is working as intended. Its very name implies that the cs1|2 template has primary author/contributor/editor/etc parameters. Your example template is incomplete; no author parameter even though |author-mask=2 suggests that there ought to be an author parameter. |others= in its isolation causes {{cite book}} to emit the manintenance message. Follow the link at the end of the manintenance message.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah—right. Thank you. —DocWatson42 (talk) 12:04, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Since it's not currently obvious and apparently I can't do it myself, would you please be so kind as to add a notation to the parameter to the effect that use of an "author" or "editor" parameter are required for the "others" parameter to work. (I prefer explicit, rather than implicit, instructions.) —DocWatson42 (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    A primary author/contributor/editor/etc is not required for the "others" parameter to work. In cs1|2, missing 'required' parameters are errors and are indicated as such. Look at your example above; the rendered template clearly identifies India Jane Birley as the illustrator.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:24, 21 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    url-access=restricted?

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    What's the form for |url-access= for books which are only available under special circumstances -- for example, Internet Archive books for which you need print-disabled access? "Subscription" isn't quite right, since you can't pay for the subscription: could we have something like "restricted" with a black lock to say "most people can't access this at all, but it's here for the benefit of the minority who can?" UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:34, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    See Help:Citation_Style_1#Registration_or_subscription_required. You likely want something like |url-access=registration or |url-access=limited. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:09, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    No -- the issue is that none of the three (or four, if you count null) accepted parameters are true:
    • No entry means that the url is free to access by everybody -- this isn't true.
    • |url-access=registration means that anyone can register for free -- this isn't true, since most people can't make that registration
    • |url-access=limited means that users can sign up for a limited-time trial, and then have to pay for a subscription: this isn't true, since they can't do either of those.
    • |url-access=subscription means that users need to buy a paid subscription, which (as above) doesn't exist and so they can't do.
    We're missing an option 5 for "this is available only to specific people: if you're not one of them, you can't do anything, but it's better to have the link here for the minority who can use it rather than take it away from everyone". Other examples include works hosted on university databases that are only accessible to students/alumni/staff, or the occasional work that's only accessible from within a certain country. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:31, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    "this is available only to specific people"
    Then that's |url-access=subscription. That specific people get a free subscrition is not something that needs to be highlighted. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:35, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That raises the tooltip "paid subscription required", but in this case there's no paid subscription available. I suppose another option would be to make the tooltip more encompassing or allow it to be manually changed? UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:37, 22 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Wide-spread "no footnote" errors in articles that haven't changed

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    Something has broken {{National Heritage List for England}}. This affects thousands of references on more than 100 articles.

    One example is Listed buildings in Bamford. Lots of "Listed Buildings in" articles use the template for its footnotes. There are other articles (like Burleigh Pottery) which aren't about listed buildings, but also have new problems.

    The template works in two modes. One mode is fine, the other causes "sfnp error: no target errors where there were no problems before. Now, invocations like {{sfnp|Historic England|1087857|ps=none}} are not working anymore. That invocation says there's "no target: CITEREFHistoric_England1087857".

    There used to be: it was generated by {{NHLE |num= 1087857|desc= Moore's Farmhouse, Bamford|access-date= 28 February 2022|mode=cs2}}, but that doesn't work anymore.

    I can't seem to narrow down what changed. Any help? -- mikeblas (talk) 00:06, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    @Mikeblas: What happens if you click on the link in footnote 4? I don't see the error message on my device. Rjjiii (talk) 00:32, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I see the error message. You don't see it because you haven enabled their display in your common.css. See Category:Harv and Sfn template errors § Displaying error messages.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:14, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    This is not new and it has nothing to do with Citation Style 1. This is a classic case of a false positive result from Module:Footnotes which emits that message when it cannot find a match. It cannot find a match because Module:Footnotes reads the article wikitext looking for anything that can be made into a CITEREF anchor/link. Usually in cs1|2 citation templates the necessary information is author surnames (up to four) and the year portion of the source's date. In your {{NHLE}} example, neither of those are present in the wikitext so Module:Footnotes emits the error message. The {{sfnp}} template still links to the target.
    Here is an example (using {{harvnb}} for simplicity:
    If you click that short-form link, your browser should jump you to the {{NHLE}} rendering.
    Inside {{NHLE}}, there is code that sets the |ref= parameter of the underlying {{cite web}} template to {{SfnRef|Historic England|{{{num}}}}} where {{{num}}} in this example is 1087857. That is not visible to Module:Footnotes. Despite the error message, the link from the short-form reference to the long-form reference works. Click it an see.
    But, this particular use of {{harvnb|Historic England|{{{num}}}}} creates a malformed rendering; that template should not be rendering an ampersand. Pretty sure I've seen this particular issue discussed elsewhere. You can get around these issues by writing:
    This works because Module:Footnotes can see the |ref={{sfnref|Historic England 1087857}} in the template wikitext and can see that it matches the {{harvnb}} output.
    More detail and perhaps a better explanation of the false positive error messages can be found at Category:Harv and Sfn template errors. This is not a new error and it is not caused by the module suite that underlies cs1|2 templates.
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:14, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    The template is whitelisted in patterns section of Module:Footnotes/whitelist, so these error shouldnt be happening. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 01:57, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    There also Cleveland Point Light that has false positive no target errors for CITEREFLighthouses_of_Australia_Inc, which has also been whitelisted in Module:Footnotes/whitelist. Could this be a WP:THURSDAY thing? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 02:07, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I've raised the issue at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) § anchor encoding changed?
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:24, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    But that's just not true: it's certainly new. These citations were not flagged just a few days ago. -- mikeblas (talk) 15:20, 23 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    Citing multiple chapters with different authors from a book

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    Could've sworn there was a way to do the following, but I can't find it now:

    Editor last, first (date) Book title ....

        Author last, first "chapter title" in editor last (date) ...

    Thanks (t · c) buidhe 15:57, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    {{harvc}}?
    —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:01, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    That's what I was looking for, thank you! (t · c) buidhe 16:08, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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