Talk:November 2019 Gaza–Israel clashes

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Gaza vs PIJ

Hi, Bolter21 I think PIJ should be listed under Gaza to verify where PIJ is located. Not including Gaza makes the infobox ambiguous. It's similar to include IAF but not Israel. Gaza is the country, PIJ is part of the armed force. KasimMejia (talk) 10:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kasim (ok if I call you that way?) The ongoing conflict is between the State of Israel (and its armed forces) and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. Hamas, the Salafists or any other party is not really involved (yet). The Gaza Strip, as well as Israel, are both listed as the location of the violence. I think it is a bit of OR to let the PIJ represent the Gaza Strip as an entity.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:03, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not everybody in Gaza has to be involved for the conflict to be between Gaza and Israel. There is a battle between Gaza and Israel right now without Hamas being involved. KasimMejia (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Gaza Strip is ruled by Hamas. Israel is fighting the PIJ. It is like Turkish clashes with the SDF in Syria. It is not a conflict between Turkey and Syria until Syria gets involved.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:24, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a bit different. Kurds had their own country in Syria. PIJ and Hamas rule the same area jointly. KasimMejia (talk) 11:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would not say so. This is becoming OR. Therefore, I say, don't put the Gaza Strip as a beligerent. The PIJ does not represent the Gaza Strip, especially not now, and especially when Israel is trying not to attack Hamas and Hamas does not retaliate.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:53, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

According to this source[1], Hamas said Israel bore "full responsibility for the consequences of this escalation". It warned that the killing of Abu al-Ata would "not pass without punishment". KasimMejia (talk) 12:00, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Times of Israel: "Hamas official said to warn that group will join fighting if IDF strikes persist" meaning that they are not currently involved, thought may be in the future. ShimonChai (talk) 14:16, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

These statements are statements. Even their content does not imply that Hamas is engaged in the fightings against Israel.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox should not include Gaza, because Gazan authorities (Hamas) were not involved.GreyShark (dibra) 18:41, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PIJ is also a Gazan authority is it not? Besides why do you all want to exclude Gaza? The conflict took place between Gaza-Israel in terms of location, what does it matter whether Hamas was involved or not, it's still between Gaza-Israel. Furthermore, how can Hamas claim it is the governing entity of Gaza if it can't control who launches rockets from it. KasimMejia (talk) 07:39, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No one has a problem with using the location field, they have a problem with it being listed as a subgroup in the combat section of Gaza because it implies that gaza as a political entity, rather than a location, was involved in the conflict. Also, Hamas is recognized as the government of Gaza. In the same way that Assad is recognized as the leader of Syria, it is not relevent that there is a terrorist group opperating within their borders without their permission, because soverignity isn't defined by how many violent groups can freely operate within your borders. Well it is true that Hamas and PIJ have a relationship together, they are still seperate. ShimonChai (talk) 12:51, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

...both were attributed to the Iranian-Israeli tensions in the region

Greyshark09 I didn't see any source claim this is part of Israeli-Iranian hostilities. Sure, the PIJ is an Iranian backed group, but this doesn't mean it is part o the proxy war.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 11:38, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If PIJ is an Iranian proxy group and sources say so [2], then it is part of the proxy war.GreyShark (dibra) 18:40, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Iranian proxy" is a big label. Iran gives money to the PIJ, but that doesn't mean Iran controls every move. This conflict is portrayed as a response of Israel to a radical member of the group who doesn't follow his superiors. This was also an Israeli attack that has nothing to do with Iran.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:10, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]